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Topic Subject:Ancient Wars: Sparta
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Irish_PXzyan
Conscript
posted 03-01-07 08:57 PM EDT (US)         
hey.

Hey guys...can anyone remmember Ancient Wars: Sparta? it was mentioned here in september. if not then take a look at the link.

Its an RTS game that looks very like this game, it sounds great and its out in 2 weeks from now

Now all i hope is that theres an editor to give a go

http://www.playlogicgames.com/games/?id=sparta

AuthorReplies:
GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 03-06-07 06:15 PM EDT (US)     26 / 94       
Oh well I don't visit IGN or the game sites... I just meant it got little attention on HG. There was just the thread it was anounced in, and they made an EE3 section in EEH but didn't even say anything about it. It was just there.

"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
Irish_PXzyan
Conscript
posted 03-07-07 08:31 AM EDT (US)     27 / 94       
heh thats true!!! They have a EE3 site up now tho so thats something

If you check on PlayLogic fourms you will see a moderator has responded and have confirmed the game wont release ont he 13th march! Edios have yet to get there thingys done..and the game should appear in a number of PC magz next month things sound like they are coming along nicely now

GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 03-07-07 10:10 AM EDT (US)     28 / 94       
Well thats annoying but I'd rather have a finished game... It also explains why the demo isn't out yet I was starting to worry that they just simply didn't release the demo yet, which would not be a sign of a company that supported its fans. Thankfully they just couldn't make their deadline

"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
Spartos
Conscript
posted 03-09-07 09:19 PM EDT (US)     29 / 94       
I've just been through some screenshots of Sparta, and it seems for all the claims their lead designers made in interviews about "historical accuracy" it seems they just couldn't deliver. I'm beginning to think that I'm the only RTS player who cares about history at all. Just take a look at the Egyptians in this screenshot.

Ancient Wars: Sparta - Egyptians and Persians

Almost all of them look like they're wearing the crown of Lower Egypt (Isn't that supposed to be reserved for the Pharaohs?). Their shields are just way too ornate and would be way to heavy and expensive with all those gold and emerald inlays. Their neck-pieces would also be ridiculously heavy, and only reserved for royalty,let alone the common soldier. And please, find me an historical reference for those double-blade weapons (I'm pretty sure they never existed). They could have started with some actual historical evidence, like these tomb ornament Figures made by the Egyptians themselves.

Don't even get me started with the Persians. They look like Medieval period Saracen Jihadists crossed with Iraqi terrorists! If they really wanted to represent the Persians accurately, they might have started here.

Some of the buildings also look extraordinarily inaccurate, but the Greek Civilization is sound for the most part. If I even buy this game at all it will be for the Spartans, because they don't look that bad. But seriously, is it really that hard to make a game that's historically feasible? Don't tell me people won't by a game that's realistic, Rome: Total War was one of the most popular strategy games ever, and had comparitively excellent historical content (even though their Egyptians were a little wacked too.) Even RaF was a fairly good example of historical accuracy (although I have a few problems with it). So why aren't any RTS games cashin' in on the realistic, nitty-gritty reality approach?

After all, if you're trying to portray an ancient civilization, you should at least do research beyond watching "The War in Iraq" and "The Mummy Returns" for your inspiration. So, I'm just wondering if anyone else feels this way, or can explain why game companies are so ignorant. Who knows, maybe we can start a petition to send to World Forge in hopes that the next "Ancient Wars" title will embrace historical content.

[This message has been edited by Spartos (edited 03-09-2007 @ 09:30 PM).]

GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 03-09-07 10:32 PM EDT (US)     30 / 94       
I honestly think that the companies don't think people will go into the detail you did on the unit art. When they talk about historical accuracy, they simply mean that there is some evidence behind the campaign and that there are no sorcerers who can bring about volcanoes or petrify enemies To the ignorant commoner such as myself, there is nothing wrong with any of that (though I did notice how much gold and art was on it, which the common soldier wouldn't have. I didn't worry about it at all, though).

"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old

[This message has been edited by GoSailing (edited 03-09-2007 @ 10:34 PM).]

Irish_PXzyan
Conscript
posted 03-10-07 09:47 AM EDT (US)     31 / 94       
I think the units looks bad..I only like the Spartans and will more than likly will only play as the Spartans!

The units look terrible..the helmet they wear looks terrible for a normal average unit....I guess we shall see.

GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 03-10-07 11:25 AM EDT (US)     32 / 94       
I'm not agreeing with the companies, by the way, I'm just saying what I believe their opinion is. I doubt they think that historic units will affect sales, whether they do or not is another matter.

"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
Spartos
Conscript
posted 03-10-07 05:47 PM EDT (US)     33 / 94       
Well, if they needed proof they could have looked at the Total War series. There are so many people who play those games just because of their passion for history.

I also thought I'd post and show you all the Ancient Wars: Sparta game manual that was posted by World Forge. It has information on gameplay, unit types, buildings and an overview of the civilizations. Even though it's in Russian, you can still translate it with Free Translations. Even though the translation isn't perfect (*understatement) you can still gather quite a few details about how the game will work. You can find the manual for download as a PDF here. (Unit + Building pics also!)

GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 03-10-07 05:57 PM EDT (US)     34 / 94       
Thanks Spartos

"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
Lysimachus
Conscript
posted 03-14-07 07:43 PM EDT (US)     35 / 94       
I am 100% with you Spartos. I'm another one who cares about historical accuracy.

I spent months doing all in my power to get SSSi to portray units as historically accurate as possible. They did better than most companies, but they too messed up on the Egyptian Spearmen...all level 5 spearmen once again looked like pharaoh.

You and me Spartos ought to start up our own company and make the most accurately historical RTS games ever made!

*if only I had the necessary programming skills*

[edit]

Also, I forgot to mention. All a game company has to do is purchase the Osprey Military Series books for the most accurate historical military dress. Those are the best military books in the WORLD BAR NONE!

GoSailing,

I really encourage you to learn your history. I was never part of HG because of games. I was here because history drove me to buy a game called "Age of Empires" back in 1998. Believe it or not, Age of Empires tought me a lot of ancient history that I never knew about...I had always been into medieval and Napoleonic, but never ancient. After playing AoE, it made my interest for history grow even more!

Get yourself some Osprey Military books, read them...you will see uniforms and military dress like you've never seen before in traditional history books. The weapons are also highly focussed on.

The 2 civilizations in RnF that SSSi hit it on was the Persians and Greeks. Romans and Egyptians are a little off.


~Lysimachus - Former HG Angel for Rise & Fall Heaven || Was RaFH Game Info Admin || Proud Member of HG since 1998

[This message has been edited by Lysimachus (edited 03-14-2007 @ 07:55 PM).]

Spartos
Conscript
posted 03-14-07 10:10 PM EDT (US)     36 / 94       
Well, it's good to see someone who shares the same sentiment as I do. I definitely agree with you about the Osprey books, I've always been a fan of their accuracy and artwork. I now believe my passion for history has exceeded my passion for RTS games. Unlike you, I became an RTS fan first (my first game was Empire Earth) and then started appreciating history as I progressed within the scenario design community. As far as creating an historical RTS, we may have our hopes realized some day with the completion of the 0 A.D. project. Not only does this freeware game look astonishingly accurate, but it also boasts fairly modern graphics and the ability for designers to easily create mods/expansions for the game using the same engine. Who knows, with this projects' future release, the ages of history may finally be brought back to life.
GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 03-14-07 11:09 PM EDT (US)     37 / 94       
Lysimachus, first off its nice to see you here. Second, I am somewhat interested in history, but more not really about the dress, and I'm still very ignorant in all things historical (not just the dress) since I haven't even taken a High School history course yet (taking Bio this year).

"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
Lysimachus
Conscript
posted 03-16-07 12:24 PM EDT (US)     38 / 94       
skparagon
Conscript
posted 03-19-07 10:13 PM EDT (US)     39 / 94       
No hero mode! Well then im not going to get it. When i first saw it i was like COOL it must have hero mode! But sadly no.. so i will just stick whith RAF until a new awesome game like RAF comes out..
Sargon II
Conscript
posted 03-20-07 07:49 AM EDT (US)     40 / 94       
Notice that they have updated the web page, you no longer have to go into a window to see it.

Veni, Vidi, Castratavi Illegitimos.
Lysimachus
Conscript
posted 03-26-07 11:29 AM EDT (US)     41 / 94       
What website are you talking about? Url please.

~Lysimachus - Former HG Angel for Rise & Fall Heaven || Was RaFH Game Info Admin || Proud Member of HG since 1998
GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 03-26-07 04:33 PM EDT (US)     42 / 94       
http://www.ancientwarssparta.com/The official website. Not to much info on it, though. BTW, if you click the American flag and it asks for the date, its not asking today's date, but your birthday. It won't let you view the site if you do today's date.

"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
Papyrus
Conscript
posted 03-29-07 04:22 PM EDT (US)     43 / 94       
Im going to wait several months to get this game for $10. Lesson learned
Why pay $40 when you can get it for $20 in 3 months. Seeing how it is a raf clone without hero mode. On historical accuracy, thats just bad business. Hence a game that has FANTASY in it.

On another note I think its great how Wii chose to go with Gamespy.
/sarcasm

GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 03-29-07 08:26 PM EDT (US)     44 / 94       

Quote:

Im going to wait several months to get this game for $10. Lesson learned
Why pay $40 when you can get it for $20 in 3 months.

I understand your point, although I myself prefer to get the game and get in the action quickly and suffer the consequences. I'd be suffering knowing people were climbing the ladder while I didn't even have a copy.

Quote:

Seeing how it is a raf clone without hero mode

Absolutely not. Many many different features. Wind and fire, plus real physics are just a few. Then you can equip seperate units (not just classes) with different types of armor and weapons which you can pick up after battle. You can even give units two weapons, such as a bow and a sword.

I don't know how well those promised features will be portrayed, but they are said to be there, while they weren't in RaF. The only real similarities between the two are that they are both set in Ancient times, but that hardly makes them clones. Lots of features for naval combat (don't know the extent of that yet, but at the very least you can grapple and capture ships) and pathable walls are also similarities, but those were bound to come as the main problem with having them in games earlier was technology. Its not a problem now, making it a likely feature in games.


"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 04-02-07 01:29 PM EDT (US)     45 / 94       
Well, the demo is now available. I will make a write up on the demo after I play for a few hours (5 minutes left in the download). Here is the link.

http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=41857&mode=thread&order=0

Enjoy!


"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
Dr Grip
Conscript
posted 04-02-07 09:33 PM EDT (US)     46 / 94       
Thanks, I;ll surely try out the demo, hopefully I won't have any problems running it.

I'm kind of disappointed to see that they don't have formations though (saw the trailer), the units only fight as individual units instead of a group, which they should.


This is the best signature ever!
GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 04-02-07 10:16 PM EDT (US)     47 / 94       
They have formations... Kind of. They walk in formations with ranged units in back. They also stay in the formation somewhat in battles. Technically there are no formations (no bonuses or features to add people to formations) but its enough for most things. I'm just really annoyed that there is no skirmish. The Egypt campaign is the closest so far to a skirmish, but its still hard to tell much about gameplay without a skirmish map. Even the tiny amount in RaF's demo gave more about gameplay than a campaign. Its fun though.

"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
Papyrus
Conscript
posted 04-02-07 11:14 PM EDT (US)     48 / 94       
Generally speaking, the demo for download is of poor quality. Not to reflect on the final product itself but in my opinion it should not have been released, because it gives a bad first impression. I think the overall game is a good concept but some obvious element were taken from something *bump* *bump*. On Windows Vista the game just locks up and all I get is a big sign that says English when exiting. I'm having to end task to exit. The demo doesn't even come with a manual and you cant configure keys in the demo.

This is where I get to my final piece. There are two things not looking so hot about this game. First, Not much camera action im seeing. Basically your stuck with a sky view or a hovering dolly camera that never quite reaches eye level (hence the cinematics suck). This probably had a factor on raf success. The cinematics are beautiful for that game. The second problem is it has already got a head start on no promotion. That and the fact that it will be Gamespy enabled. But fileplanet doesnt have it on the frontpage. Thats what I use to find my demos and I realize others may not but chances are that if its not on there. It probably wont do well at all. I wouldve never have known about raf except for word of mouth. But that can only go so far. So in conclusion, ill be surprised if this game gets a slightly good review from a well known source. I mean first impression is its not all that bad. It's immenent if it comes out there will be a pricedrop within the first week of its release.

GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 04-03-07 00:35 AM EDT (US)     49 / 94       
First thing I have to say is that I nearly died when I saw the Gamspy logo in the intro credits.

I agree with the lack of publicity but somehow it is 5th at, I believe, gamespot right now, and is up there on multiple gaming sites.

The demo did come with a readme, and you even get the option of reading it after you install it. Its even on the web right here, at a download spot that was linked on the playlogic forums. http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=41857&mode=thread&order=0

I still haven't played the last campaign but its ridiculous that there is no skirmish map with the demo... I guess there was some problem or another with it so they didn't want to release it... Anyways, unless the 3rd map is different, you won't even know how to build units until you buy the game! In the first map you free Spartans, in the second you get reinforcements and hopefully the Persian map is closer to the real game or the demo will be next to useless in giving clues on gameplay. As I have said before, though, its still fun

One little comment... with having to have farms for food and how big gold mines+the sifters, it strikes me that maps are going to need to be huge or you will run out of room on the map... That can be a huge problem. Hopefully they have some plan to counter that because it would be a shame to have no room to spread out just as it would be a shame to not be able to rush. Actually now that I think about it just different size maps and random map scrips like E: DMW will probably fix it. You can just find your favorite settings and have fun on that.


"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 04-03-07 01:08 PM EDT (US)     50 / 94       
OK I finished playing the Persian campaign. After you customize units, they stay as templates which you click on to train units. Before I thought that you were customizing individual soldiers and there was some sort of button I couldn't find to mass produce them.

Economy

Overall I think it has a good balance of resources, and a good amount. The most interesting aspect of the economy is without a doubt that you maintain your army with food like real life, instead of just "buying" units with food. Its a very clever idea that, so far as I can tell, will be the biggest limiting factor in making large armies. While you can make as many farms as you want, they are quite big (especially Persia's) which means you might run out of room on the map. I sure did. Gold mines are actually gold mines on which you have to build a refinery/sifter. Its very realistic, but again, it takes up a lot of space. Three or four civilians are allowed to work on it, depending on your civilization. While some previews said that gold will hold you back, I don't think the same. The gold gather rate is sufficient to equip warriors just the same as the wood gather rate is sufficient to build whatever buildings you may want. The hard thing to manage will be the food. I suspect it will take a skilled player to keep the farms safe from raids while keeping enough of them to maintain your army.

Military
The battles, while not as organized as Rise and Fall's, are not nearly as scrambled as the trailer made it seem. Ranged units stand back in an organized line and fire on whoever you tell them to, or whoever is in range. Hand to hand units go up and fight eachother leaving a battle somewhat like this | || | The archers are in back supporting the hand to hand units while they rip eachother apart.

Environmental factors and traps
Well, the traps are as fun and devastating as they promised. You can roll rocks down hills and build spike pits that can be fairly lethal, though I suggest putting them on manual if you think you will remember them. The AI that you can have do it for you can often trigger it early, or trigger it when your own units are on top of it, which hurts them as well. Wind and fire can be absolutely crushing... I had the misfortune of the enemy setting fire to one of my farms (but not killing it since my army drove it away once I got there). The fire spread with the wind and set fire to about 10 farms before I finally got all the workers to stop using them and repair them. It was really annoying since the wind would reverse and relight farms I already fixed. It can be a truly lethal and effective strategy that should not go without consideration.

Performance/Aesthetics
The performance was just fine on my system, where everything is near the recommended except that I only have 1 gig system RAM. I was running about 30-35 FPS with fair graphics. Some have said that screens and trailers for RaF made the game look better than it is. I would say its the opposite for Ancient Wars: Sparta. The game looks great and runs well.

Possible Problems and suggestions

Size of buildings: As I have said before, the buildings are really large, which is nice, but it makes even the biggest base very cramped. I'd dare you to try making two or three barracks and archery ranges!

Make unit class more obvious: It was easy enough to tell ranged units from close combat infantry, but other than that it gets hard. It would be nice if we could tell easier whether they happen to be javelin throwers, slingers or archers. If they are swordsmen, axemen or whatever else is the game. That, however, is not nearly as important as us being able to tell the units that have secondary weapons apart from units that dont. I guess part of that difference can be made consciously by the player by using different shields or something, but if there was something external it would be great. If you have mixes of ranged, not ranged and then both and for whatever reason you want to switch some, it would be great to be able to locate the ones you can switch easier.

Make the effect of food more visible: While there is the food count up on the right corner telling whether you have enough or if your people are starting to starve, some other indication would be nice. I'm not saying changing the unit models because that would be hell to code and its to late for anything like that anyways. If we could know who the food is affecting and how much, like maybe have a food/morale counter on the unit stats it would be easier for us to make informed decisions about food. Right now I'm wondering if it would be good to get more units than you can support just for a raid. You will lose troops at the raid so you would reach carrying capacity, but would your troops fight so poorly that you would rather have 10 less? Its impossible to tell, but being able to would be awesome.

Thats about everything. If you have any questions or ideas just let me know.


"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
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