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Rise and Fall Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Glory becoming useless? Too few benefits for leveling up?
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Topic Subject:Glory becoming useless? Too few benefits for leveling up?
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N2DFRAY
Noble (VIP)
posted 10-10-06 04:43 PM EDT (US)         
Glory becoming useless? Too few benefits for leveling up?

I am curious if anyone in the online community has experienced Glory becoming relatively useless during long, high level games.

Does anyone feel there should be more benefit to gaining levels 6-10?

I am considering uploading some mods I've done for the game, but only if someone other than myself sees these as issues. It would be nice to be able to have a group play test them a little too.

At any rate, I'll watch for responses from anyone that is interested.

AuthorReplies:
Dr Grip
Conscript
posted 10-10-06 05:52 PM EDT (US)     1 / 30       
Normally at the stage when you're in a high level(level 5 +), there should be quite a lot of battles going on. So glory is very easy to gain. But most people would rather research advisors first at that stage.

But perhaps you can increase troops morale as you get leveled up. Still I'm very interested about your mods. After all, no one(in here) has managed to mod the files of the game.


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RoMaNPwNaGe
Conscript
posted 10-10-06 06:42 PM EDT (US)     2 / 30       
I Think Leveling Up Is Enough.
I Dont Want Too Many Levels Because Then It'd Cause Controversy Of People Worried If They're Falling Behind And It Would Just Be Too Much For 1 Game.
The Average Game Makes It To About Level 6 I Just Dont See Why Adding More To The Last 3 or 4(depending if you count 6 as one of the levels) Levels Would Change Anything Much At All.

(| /)
(^.^)
( > )>
\) \)
^Bunny

[This message has been edited by RoMaNPwNaGe (edited 10-10-2006 @ 06:42 PM).]

GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 10-10-06 06:52 PM EDT (US)     3 / 30       
It wouldn't add controversy...

I think it is a great idea, but as Dr. Grip said, glory is very easy to come by once you are there because there are bunches of battles giving glory. It doesn't take much to get glory once you are in the game a bit, because every time you skirmish or raid or even have a full out battle (with 500-2500 troops each) you earn loads of glory.

I must say I am encouraged to see a VIP on RaFH, because nobody has been on in ages. I would be happy to try your mods, but if you could somehow make a mod that lets you play normal games on normal maps, but with Roman Swordsmen weaker, that would be great. There are scenarios that have weaker Roman Swordsmen, but it has to be the same map and everybody has to download from host which can take incredibly long.


"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
DominatorGREP
Conscript
posted 10-11-06 08:37 PM EDT (US)     4 / 30       
I don't know what, but I think something for extra for glory should be added. At the beginning it's VERY scarce and valuable, but in some long games I have hero Level 10, all the advisors and researched everything. I really wish at that time there was something else to do with my glory; I had 30,000 glory and nothing to do with it!
Athen
Conscript
posted 10-11-06 11:18 PM EDT (US)     5 / 30       
No one is concerned with late-game tactics! We are only concerned with the early game ones. I think SSSI and Midway did a superb job with the glory and I never fine it useless even after level 5.

First of all, the buildings are too weak and it's a problem in the game. They should be three or four times stronger at least without cost changes.

Second, glory should be SUBTRACTED when you attack enemy civilians.

It's not glorious to attack innocent people and it would be a great idea because then there wouldn't be brainless tactics out there.

The best players online are rushers, and the games usually only last about a few minutes with the mindless and repeating clicking on an enemy building or civilian.
Being in the top 15 I used to be a fair playing gamer but since rushers gained the upperhand lately it's been hard not to rush against them and expect to win.


Top 15 RAF Ladder: [RoR]Acamas
"Macs are the computing equivalent of a dumb blond. " - Silk
Formally known as Acamas, Acamas_Samaca and Hero_Acamas
If you are interested in the [RoR] clan visit our website
GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 10-12-06 01:47 AM EDT (US)     6 / 30       
Attacking economy is a common and effective strategy in war. There is nothing wrong with rushing, except that its effective, and that makes people angry.

Buildings do need to be stronger.


"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
RoMaNPwNaGe
Conscript
posted 10-12-06 01:22 PM EDT (US)     7 / 30       
Econ Raping Is a Perfect Strategy.
However Buildings Should Be Stronger As Sails Said.
Dont Make Walls Stronger.
The Regular Buildings Need To Be Stronger.
x3 or x4 Times Stronger.

Rushing Has Been A Part Of Every Game.
Along With Econ Raping.
Buildings However Have Never been So Weak To Where a Civilization That Has 15 Men Can Wipe It Out In Seconds.


(| /)
(^.^)
( > )>
\) \)
^Bunny
Dr Grip
Conscript
posted 10-12-06 01:51 PM EDT (US)     8 / 30       
Yeah, I agree buildings need to be stronger now. In one case, a town defense of mine was destroyed by s mall force of cavalry.

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RoMaNPwNaGe
Conscript
posted 10-12-06 02:53 PM EDT (US)     9 / 30       
I Do Not Think Glory Should Be Gained By Killing Buildings.
I Do However Feel Very Little Glory Should Be Gained By Attacking Citizens.

(| /)
(^.^)
( > )>
\) \)
^Bunny
Athen
Conscript
posted 10-12-06 07:08 PM EDT (US)     10 / 30       
It's common sense for "glory" to be subtracted when attacking civilians/slaves. I don't see what's wrong though for destroying a building and gaining glory.

Top 15 RAF Ladder: [RoR]Acamas
"Macs are the computing equivalent of a dumb blond. " - Silk
Formally known as Acamas, Acamas_Samaca and Hero_Acamas
If you are interested in the [RoR] clan visit our website
Dr Grip
Conscript
posted 10-12-06 07:13 PM EDT (US)     11 / 30       
Subtracting glory if citizens are killed are too much, IMO. Because, killing citizens is inneverable, especially in ancient times. Perhaps they should gain no glory at all for killing citizens.

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Athen
Conscript
posted 10-12-06 09:06 PM EDT (US)     12 / 30       
What's stopping you from killing citizens? You just lose glory, that's all. It will still be done and hurt the person who is being attacked but it comes at a cost of losing a little glory. Of course, getting a wood merchant or an advisor for glory is just as unrealistic.

Top 15 RAF Ladder: [RoR]Acamas
"Macs are the computing equivalent of a dumb blond. " - Silk
Formally known as Acamas, Acamas_Samaca and Hero_Acamas
If you are interested in the [RoR] clan visit our website

[This message has been edited by Athen (edited 10-12-2006 @ 09:09 PM).]

Dr Grip
Conscript
posted 10-13-06 02:15 PM EDT (US)     13 / 30       
The problem is that you can't convert citizens. Also killing citizens is considered to be a good tactic because it will ruint the economy of your opponents.

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N2DFRAY
Noble (VIP)
posted 10-13-06 05:02 PM EDT (US)     14 / 30       
Dominator GREP seems to have experienced what I am talking about.

DG, when I say mod, I mean manipulating game characteristics via triggers, not modding the actual dat files (at least not in this case). Sorry I can't help with that.

GS, about the long download time from the Host, one way to save time would be to have the Host post the map, and players download it from the website before loading the game. That should be a lot quicker than downloading directly from the host.

I should probably clarify that I am speaking as an individual, not as a Midway representative. My mods are just my own personal attempt to add some fun and replay value.

It looks as if there are a few people willing to playtest my ideas (thanks). I am a little busy with other obligations at the moment, but as soon as I can find a few hours to do some last minute prep on the map, I will be contacting those who have expressed interest. I am hoping this will be within the week.

Athen
Conscript
posted 10-13-06 07:05 PM EDT (US)     15 / 30       
Take my word for it Fray and hear me out.

If you want the game to be fun, make the buildings stronger and create a mod to discourage the repeated clicking tactics!


Top 15 RAF Ladder: [RoR]Acamas
"Macs are the computing equivalent of a dumb blond. " - Silk
Formally known as Acamas, Acamas_Samaca and Hero_Acamas
If you are interested in the [RoR] clan visit our website
Dr Grip
Conscript
posted 10-13-06 07:28 PM EDT (US)     16 / 30       
Oh, in fact I'm also making a map like that. When yours is finished you should submit it to the download cenral so we all can test it out.

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GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 10-13-06 09:19 PM EDT (US)     17 / 30       
I'm happy to test it out. I know about using the website, but most people don't and even if you suggest they go to HG, even if only for the download, they don't...

"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
chazmac
Conscript
posted 10-17-06 04:05 PM EDT (US)     18 / 30       
well it seems a great idea, once im on level 5 i kinda mindlessly level up because i have so much glory being built up. how about some buliding upgrades, or even wall upgrades would be pretty interesting. sounds cool to me...


"your mum" i think think ppl should worship the pure randomness of it. randomness rocks!
grahamwookie
Conscript
posted 10-26-06 04:01 AM EDT (US)     19 / 30       
Hi N2DFRAY, this might be alittle off subject but I'm trying in vein to find out more about the files used in RaF (excellent game by the way).

My hope is to have a go at some textures and maybe some modelling for a mod for RaF.

Could you please help me in my quest and offer some advise on where to look or tools...?

If you can help I'd be very grateful

Graham

Oscar
Conscript
posted 10-26-06 05:54 AM EDT (US)     20 / 30       

Quote:

Glory becoming useless?

In my opinion glory become useless only in the very very long games, so very rarely. Most of online games don't take more than 30-35 minutes to end and in my case I usually don't succed in levelling my hero till the 10th level before the game ends.

However if the "extra glory" is really a problem it could be solved simply in this way with an easy modification: the super units of each civilization (centurions, spartans, elephants, Persian catapults, chariots and so on...) could need also some glory, besides wood and gold, to be trained.

N2DFRAY
Noble (VIP)
posted 10-27-06 05:38 PM EDT (US)     21 / 30       
Well, it looks pretty much like I expected. This is only an issue for long games and most of the time, the online games don't last that long. Since I already have most of the work done, I still plan to release my designs on what more can be done with Glory. Once they have been tested a little, I do plan to post them in the Download section of this website, just for those people that'd like to try them. For the testing I plan to contact Dr. Grip and GoSailing (they are the only ones with posted email addresses).

It also seems like the building strength is an issue for a significant group of people, so I will look into making something for that when I'm done with what I'm working on (naturally if anybody wants to beat me to it, be my guest).

This brings me to an idea I had on how the site might get more use out of it's Mod section. I'll post that in the Scenario Design forum.

GrahamWookie, I am sorry I can't help you. I truly wish I could.

GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 10-27-06 06:20 PM EDT (US)     22 / 30       
Dr. Grip beat you. He made a balance map that everybody should try. Buildings are stronger and everything is balanced how many people have said they should on these forums. However, more scenarios with that would be welcome, I'm sure.

"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old

[This message has been edited by GoSailing (edited 10-27-2006 @ 06:20 PM).]

Dr Grip
Conscript
posted 10-27-06 07:30 PM EDT (US)     23 / 30       
LOL, indeed I finished that balancing map already. But not everyone is completely happy with it. And having another balancing map isn't a bad thing either. We will be happy to test that out for you.

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GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 10-27-06 09:27 PM EDT (US)     24 / 30       
Whoops. I thought I directly mentioned that I would be happy to test it. Oh well.

I'd like to test your scenario.


"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
N2DFRAY
Noble (VIP)
posted 10-30-06 04:03 PM EDT (US)     25 / 30       
Actually that's great! I was only going to do the balancing thing because people were asking for it. I'd really rather work on my next map idea (as soon as I get the other one into testing).

It's to be expected that you can't please everyone Dr. Grip. A good percentage is all anyone can really hope for. BTW, what map is it in? I'd like to check it out.

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