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Rise and Fall Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Formations: How much control do we have?
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Topic Subject:Formations: How much control do we have?
GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 07-08-06 03:50 PM EDT (US)         
I have played many games where I rushed with 9 men... And have relized that we really have almost no control over the targets of formations. I tell them to atack citizens or something, but they don't go there. They turn around and attack the military that comes behind the infantry.... which I dont want. Do you know any way to get actual obedience from a formation attacking a single unit? Have you had these problems? Discuss.

"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
AuthorReplies:
Chonaman
Conscript
posted 07-08-06 05:11 PM EDT (US)     1 / 14       
I think this is a pathing issue as much as anything. You can tell a formation to attack cits by right clicking on them, but if the opening to get to them is too tight, you might get one or two guys squeezed through and the other guys stand around attacking something close by (on the other side of the bottleneck) instead. In situations like that, it's almost better to disband the formation and let the units attack as individuals that you micromanage to different civs (unless you're being counter-attacked by enemy troops, of course).

Total War Heaven Former Angel Cherub and Long-Time Contributor
GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 07-08-06 05:36 PM EDT (US)     2 / 14       
I thought about doing that, but its a shame if you are Persia, because you lose a LOT of bonus attack and defense with the Elite formation early. I will look into that more.

"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
Cameraman
Conscript
posted 07-08-06 06:47 PM EDT (US)     3 / 14       
Yeah because of the pathing/bottlenecking issue I don't like to have my formations greater than 40. Bigger formations are easier to manage and everything but smaller ones around 32 or so just seem to get the job done better.
Chonaman
Conscript
posted 07-08-06 06:55 PM EDT (US)     4 / 14       
That's one of the things that is important about micro in R&F. You really have to manage the size of your formations based on the objective, and furthermore, whether you want to put you units into formations at all in some cases.

We all know there are bonuses for formations, (the larger formation, the greater the bonus) but that has to be balanced against the negatives, i.e., formations can't get to tight spots or attack targets of opportunity (i.e. civlians) effectively when in formation.

This is one of the "different kinds" of micro in R&F. Done well, it really makes a difference.


Total War Heaven Former Angel Cherub and Long-Time Contributor
Dima86
Conscript
posted 07-09-06 08:57 PM EDT (US)     5 / 14       
ive tried having a huge fromation then breaking it up and making a smaller formation to attack individual targets like civs, and then put the rest of the guys in one massive formation to do what they do.

Formations seemt o cause a lot of pathing issues. But breaking up units individually just makes them WAY to weak. At first i thought the fact that all of them started runnign around and killing guys was cool until i realised that i had lost the entire army becasue it was broken out of formation to an outpost with 1/4th the number of units.

Essentialy the formation bonus is huge, but pathing kills micro. So definaltye using multiple smaller formations is the way to go...but it is a pain with all that auto formations bullshit that RaF like to do to units in close proximmity.


GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 07-09-06 09:01 PM EDT (US)     6 / 14       
Hmm, I am going to explore settings and see if I can turn off auto formation... It really is a pain

"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
Acamas_Samaca
Conscript
posted 07-09-06 10:35 PM EDT (US)     7 / 14       
They really should have a formation system like RTW's where you simply click and drag and get the ideal formation you want. Or at least a bunch of optional formations you can chose.

I had a problem with Roman legionaries where they only kept in a square. The roman swordsmen kept on killing Greek royal guards despite the unfair numbers but a few kept on getting past them and going behind and killing my archers and ballistas. If I had a much longer and thinner formation of legionaries I could have kept my archers and balistas safe.


Formally known as Athen, Acamas, Hero_Acamas, pazul6
BattleRoyale
Conscript
posted 07-10-06 11:14 AM EDT (US)     8 / 14       
Since I know a number of you have discussed rushing you know about having to waste buildings early on with only swordsmen (gah! where's my siege?). You ever noticed when you select a building to attack, a town center or barracks say, with a formation and only about 50% of the swordsmen attack. The others stand behind the first column or two for uhh... morale support?

"Right on Patrician! You show that mean old building who's the real Caesar on this battlefield!"

The only way, apparently, to effectively get all my units to attack a structure is to break their formation. After that they surrond the structure and start hacking it up. I find this also works well when trying to slay civs.

I agree though, formations lack control but without them the battle is usually over pretty darn quickly.

Hopefully 'the patch' resolves the pathing and control issues.

Add: I would also like to see RTW style formations.. however I doubt that will happen.

[This message has been edited by BattleRoyale (edited 07-10-2006 @ 11:15 AM).]

GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 07-10-06 01:45 PM EDT (US)     9 / 14       
I don't know what the RTW formations were like, but I would be OK even with just Empires: DMW formaitons...

"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
Grapeshot
Conscript
posted 07-10-06 02:59 PM EDT (US)     10 / 14       
Anyone ever try the movie tie in game of Alexander? Very similair to RAF, but never supported by any patches due to the poor performance of the film.

http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages4/922249.asp

Anyway, they had plenty of formations in that game, and they did seem to work! They even had hero units...hm, now that I come to think of it, there ARE some extremely close similarities between RAF and Alexander...

N2DFRAY
Noble (VIP)
posted 07-10-06 04:51 PM EDT (US)     11 / 14       
Setting the formation behavior to "Stand Ground" has seemed to be the best way to get your formations (or any unit) to obey your target selection, otherwise they are easily distracted. For me, this has solved the problem in most situations.
GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 07-10-06 09:02 PM EDT (US)     12 / 14       
Yes, camping out a formation in the enemy's base works, and I have done it... But if they decide to have their citizens RUN then it doesnt help at all.

"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
Nodisius
Conscript
posted 07-14-06 09:39 AM EDT (US)     13 / 14       
I've not played RTW but I liked the formation options in 'Praetorians' you could have box, line 'V' etc, Swordsmen could adopt the 'Turtle' formation to move slowly forward under a solid cover of shields.

Changing the formation options is too late i m o, if they were gonna do it they would of done it before RaF went gold. Changing things like the GUI after release is a BIG deal and would be foolish i m o. The only thing they can do now is iron out bugs and improve the AI.


Ubi Concordia Ibi Victoria-Where there is Harmony There is Victory
GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 07-14-06 01:25 PM EDT (US)     14 / 14       
Ya, thats true. Welcome to Heaven Games, Nodisius.

"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
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