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Imhotep’s Blueprints (Scenario Design)
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Rise and Fall Heaven » Forums » Imhotep’s Blueprints (Scenario Design) » Co-op mode style map?
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Topic Subject:Co-op mode style map?
DominatorGREP
Conscript
posted 03-27-07 10:34 PM EDT (US)         
I've been thinking about making a multiplayer map, but wasn't sure of a theme. I then remembered how originally this game had promised co-op mode. I was struck by a fabulous idea: why not make a map that simulates co-op mode?
My plans for such a map would be 4 player, with the 2 teams set already (player1+player2 vs player3+player4). Players 1 and 3 would start as any old game would, the exception being that they can't train heroes. Player 2 and 4 though would get a unique option. Depending on the civilization their ally was, they would get to choose 1 of the 2 heroes that their ally's civilization could originally choose. Once done, players 2 and 4 could do nothing but manage the hero, unleashing the full power of hero command mode while their ally does the army and economy managing.
Of course I can see the flaws to this style, one being that players 1 and 3 would have to have much more actual skill than players 2 and 4 would. However, I'm just wondering how many people all of you think would be interested in sucha map.

From Agecommunity:
"French:
Pros: Powerful coureurs, many choices for a powerful army, a card gives the explorer the ability to heal
Cons: Expensive vills and Cuirassiers."
LOL
AuthorReplies:
GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 03-27-07 11:22 PM EDT (US)     1 / 16       
I think it would be interesting but I don't think the editor could pull it off. Maybe if you make it somehow that for players 2 and 4 there is only hero mode and you make some trigger that makes players 2 and 4's civ corespond to players 1 and 3.

NOTE: I know nothing of the editor but what I hear... and I think I have some knowledge of the editors powers, just no idea how. If that whole post is retarded, just let me know, I won't be offended.


"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
DominatorGREP
Conscript
posted 03-28-07 00:40 AM EDT (US)     2 / 16       
Well what you just said is what I was thinking of doing. And I myself don't know much either

From Agecommunity:
"French:
Pros: Powerful coureurs, many choices for a powerful army, a card gives the explorer the ability to heal
Cons: Expensive vills and Cuirassiers."
LOL
_o0XxX0o_
Conscript
posted 03-28-07 00:46 AM EDT (US)     3 / 16       

Quote:

Depending on the civilization their ally was, they would get to choose 1 of the 2 heroes that their ally's civilization could originally choose

Heroes must belong to the civ, that is being played by that same civ, or their heroes will not be able to use their bows.

I have made over a half a dozen hero mode scenarios, and I know everything about this subject.

I think what you want to achieve, is a sort of protection cooperation, between players, where as the non hero players must be defended by their teammates heroes. And at the same time, the non hero players keep a sort of "lookout", on the opposing team where a hero mode player can't normally see, because he is in hero mode.

I think it should be:

1. A 4-6 player map, with teams chosen after the game initially starts.
2. The population is kept very low, and non hero player should only be able to make buildings & siege(egypt should not be able to use the +50 pop advisor).
3. Hero players should be able to switch heroes in some capacity, so that he can use julius artilery barrage(no matter what civ), cleo's coversion power, ramses instant healing power, & so on.
4. A series of outposts that are only accesible by hero, that if taken give his non hero ally a citizen to build. Since the object will be kill the non hero players buildings, there by making the hero ally lose too, making it more cooperation.
5. A trigger that makes it so when hero goes out of hero mode(to research advisors and hero levels), the shared los with his ally is turned off so he can't see what his ally sees, to make hero player more dependent on cooperation. Then back on when in hero mode.

More ideas later....


.....................................
...............(\ /)................
..............(^.^)...............
.............<( < )...............
...............(/ (/................
...All American Bunny.....
GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 03-28-07 01:08 AM EDT (US)     4 / 16       
Sounds smart to me... GREP you lucked out that _o0XxX0o_ decided to help. He knows everything

"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
DominatorGREP
Conscript
posted 03-28-07 10:57 AM EDT (US)     5 / 16       
Agreed, I'll see what I can do. I'll probably need help on some of those ideas though; but they sound really good.

From Agecommunity:
"French:
Pros: Powerful coureurs, many choices for a powerful army, a card gives the explorer the ability to heal
Cons: Expensive vills and Cuirassiers."
LOL
Sargon II
Conscript
posted 03-28-07 10:58 AM EDT (US)     6 / 16       
Cool idea GREP.

That sounds all good oxo, but I think a problem is that you cannot get an allie's units to follow you're hero. I think there should be a way for the hero to recruit a small band of troops to follow him.


Veni, Vidi, Castratavi Illegitimos.
GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 03-28-07 11:48 AM EDT (US)     7 / 16       
Or the allied player could put units on guard mode, and set them to guard the hero. Maybe that could be written as a sugestion in the instructions... Of course heroes run faster than units so there is still a problem with that.

"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
Sargon II
Conscript
posted 03-28-07 01:15 PM EDT (US)     8 / 16       
That could be cool, but what if all the units die?

You could trigger to replace them i suppose.


Veni, Vidi, Castratavi Illegitimos.
GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 03-28-07 01:22 PM EDT (US)     9 / 16       
Or the person would just build more and assign those to guarding the hero. I'm just trying to give a way to have a royal guard with no triggers. Simply have the ally task units to defend. When they all die, task more. It also doubles as making the person in hero mode more dependent, so that they don't just wander of getting killed and screwing over their ally. Their ally can be nasty and give the hero no support. This gives the hero incentive to actually be useful.

"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
DominatorGREP
Conscript
posted 03-28-07 06:34 PM EDT (US)     10 / 16       
Well firstly such a map would be designed for friends to play together obviously. My current plans are as such:

4 players
The hero controllers cannot have any buildings or troops.
The non-hero controllers will have only 200 pop (egyptian +50 pop advisor disabled).
Non-hero controllers will not be able to train cav or spearmen, and will be suggested to make mostly siege and little special units.
Naval warfare I want to play a decent part in this map (not necessary but recommended maybe), because I've always found naval fights that involve heroes to be interesting.
There will be some areas that are either unaccessable or hard to access with non-hero troops (for example a lake that you need to swim across or a dense forest).
The non-hero controllers will start with a town center and, not 4, but 2 citizens, making heroes more necessary early on for exploration and protection.
I might consider having "bandits" that are neutral soldiers that wander around in packs of 5 to 10 and raid or attack the non-hero controllers early on (late-game this is pointless as the non-hero controllers will have an army by then).
I'm also considering putting some pre-built "forts" and minor "cities" that can be captured and provide economic or military bonuses to their owner. They will be "captured" when 3 outposts placed in the center are taken. These outposts may provide resources, soldiers, or recruitment points, or maybe even an occasional wine jug.
Comments?


From Agecommunity:
"French:
Pros: Powerful coureurs, many choices for a powerful army, a card gives the explorer the ability to heal
Cons: Expensive vills and Cuirassiers."
LOL

[This message has been edited by DominatorGREP (edited 03-28-2007 @ 06:36 PM).]

GoSailing
EEH Seraph
posted 03-28-07 06:50 PM EDT (US)     11 / 16       
Sounds worthy of development to me

"It seems to me the humour of Sails is so dry you could strike a match on it and it would be the humour that caught fire." - Friend of Old
DominatorGREP
Conscript
posted 03-28-07 08:34 PM EDT (US)     12 / 16       
But of course easier said than done...

From Agecommunity:
"French:
Pros: Powerful coureurs, many choices for a powerful army, a card gives the explorer the ability to heal
Cons: Expensive vills and Cuirassiers."
LOL
_o0XxX0o_
Conscript
posted 03-29-07 01:41 AM EDT (US)     13 / 16       

Quote:

problem is that you cannot get an allie's units to follow you're hero

If needed give the hero a chance to obtain some units. Such as:

1. Giving military buildings 1 rec point, allows buildings to be capturable, at which a small amount of units can be spawned from that building using the research effect.
2. Outposts can be made so when they release units, the units can have replace effect, so they are replaced with other formation able units. These units can only be summoned to follow, if the effect make formation is used.
3. Have some units on the map in set location given 1 recpoint(players don't receive a rec point for capturing them), so that these units are capturable the whole game.

Quote:

The non-hero controllers will start with a town center and, not 4, but 2 citizens

A greek town center has to be on the map when the game starts for hero player to be able choose his civ that hero is associated with. Have cits disabled for all civs of hero player and the supply adminstrator advisor given to that player so hero trains in half time, as well as hero cost lowered to 0.

Even if "allow victory" is not checked, in a multiplayer game, a player must have a support building exist at all times so that he is not defeated. I would do this by having the hero player Greek town center on the map and at start, create a building for that player created "off map" so that hero player can't be defeated unless his ally is defeated.

I.E. if player 1 defeated, then defeat player 3
.....if player 2 defeated player defeat player 4.

It should be possible that if a player drops then the remaining player should be able to cary on, but I don't know how I would make that work right now.

Here are some possible objectives and gameplay options

1. Bonuses for kills by hero players. Increased speed/attack/stamina regeneration/reload time/hero level advancement.
2. Hero teleportation. Rather than waiting for hero to regenerate stamina, have the hero go back to a set or predetermined location , fully regenerated. I'm in the middle of making a hero map that if a player dies, goes out of 3p mode, or runs out of stamina, the hero suddenly reappears at a changing location. Make a few teleportaion spots on the map that hero goes to and if he runs out of stamina he reappears at that spot or some other system similar. I've been able to do this with very little triggers and no lag.
3. I'm assuming that the objective would be player's 1 and 3 are playing the on the defensive, and players 2 and 4, on the offensive. So the objective would be to kill players 1 and 3.
4. Have a cycle system of challenges. I.E. Have environment and music change on a timed system where 1 team has to be on the defense, and the other on the offense. Then switching at a later time. Or...Have a time where heros instantly teleport to an arena type location where they have to battle 1v1 in hero mode, to break a tie or achieve some kind of reward. Or like a dare challenge to dispute a claim...or something.

GREP, if u need any help, do not hesitate to contact me, about laying some triggers. Map terrain and design is the part of scenario making I like the least. I really only like trigger and fine gameplay detailed work.


.....................................
...............(\ /)................
..............(^.^)...............
.............<( < )...............
...............(/ (/................
...All American Bunny.....

[This message has been edited by _o0XxX0o_ (edited 03-29-2007 @ 02:14 AM).]

DominatorGREP
Conscript
posted 03-29-07 10:40 AM EDT (US)     14 / 16       

Quote:

Map terrain and design is the part of scenario making I like the least. I really only like trigger and fine gameplay detailed work.

What do you know? It's the exact opposite for me. I like creating the map and scenery, and in the case of a scenario, laying down the troops and buildings. After that I face what I consider the grueling work of putting down some triggers.


From Agecommunity:
"French:
Pros: Powerful coureurs, many choices for a powerful army, a card gives the explorer the ability to heal
Cons: Expensive vills and Cuirassiers."
LOL
Sargon II
Conscript
posted 03-29-07 12:40 PM EDT (US)     15 / 16       
Yeah, You and me Oxo, we both hate map designing. I like the actual unit placing etc.

Veni, Vidi, Castratavi Illegitimos.
DominatorGREP
Conscript
posted 03-29-07 06:40 PM EDT (US)     16 / 16       
So currently for the map design I'll try to make some nice scenery, and maybe add some choke points or favorable height-wise positions. I'll add a "sea" to the western end of the map, where pirates will roam and little "outposts" (that are actually just defense spots) placed in strategic positions around the sea. For the land part I'll probably make a fort and city on either person's side, and place a fort and 2 cities in the middle of the map (keep in mind they're all gonna start neutral though). Bandits will roam around in the beginning, launching raids or hiding in forests or behind hills and ambushing your troops early on. Each outpost I place will come with some sort of building, though not all as much as a "fort" or "city". I'll see when I can get started on this project, I haven't had much time lately =(

From Agecommunity:
"French:
Pros: Powerful coureurs, many choices for a powerful army, a card gives the explorer the ability to heal
Cons: Expensive vills and Cuirassiers."
LOL
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